In this eye-opening episode, Saeed Alghafri explores empathy fatigue—the hidden burnout many leaders and caregivers face when they overextend their emotional energy. While empathy is a vital leadership strength, Saeed highlights the tipping point when caring too much harms productivity, well-being, and relationships at work and home. Through honest stories and practical insights, this episode invites listeners to rethink how they practice empathy and discover healthier, sustainable ways to lead with heart. Saeed reveals how setting emotional boundaries, cultivating recharge rituals, and sharing the emotional load are essential to thrive personally and professionally.
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(0:00) You know, empathy is fantastic, but like everything else, once you overdo it, it turns against you. (0:08) When you start helping people and you feel drained afterwards, (0:14) that's basically when things are not going the way you want it. Because if you want to help people, (0:20) you want to take care of yourself first, and then you can take care of other people.
It's always (0:24) good to be selfish about that. Honestly, it's not my problem. It's their problem.
(0:36) Marhaba and how's it going, everyone? And welcome back to Yuwab. I'm your host, Saeed Alghafri. (0:42) You know, in YouWAP, we always keep it real.
No BS involved. And if you're here, it tells me that (0:50) you make clarity and growth a priority in your life and work and everything in between. And that's why (0:56) I'm here.
I have been there, and I understand your frustrations and your concerns. I'll guide you (1:03) through real conversations from my experience as a CEO, a C-suite guy, and a well-being executive (1:09) coach. One more thing, and very important.
If you're new here, special welcome to you, (1:16) and thanks whoever shared this episode with you. And please share it with whoever you think (1:22) needs it. Today's episode is something that I personally felt trapped in. And I really don't (1:32) blame leaders and caregivers from it because we all face it. But really few talks about it and (1:41) very much openly. And that is empathy fatigue.
You know, empathy is fantastic. But like everything (1:49) else, once you overdo it, it turns against you. And that's when fatigue hits you the more.
Now, (2:00) why that happens, because we really don't find that balance point, because it's so important to (2:06) have that balance. Sometimes people think, yeah, let me help, let me help, let me be in their shoes, (2:11) because it's important. Empathy is important.
But again, reality is you need to find a balance where (2:17) to say no. I see also a lot of people when it comes to anything like empathy or anything, (2:26) they hear someone saying, you need to be empathic, you need to be, let's say, strategic, (2:31) and they just go and overdo it. Listen, man, it's not about let's go all the time.
Sometimes when (2:38) you overwork yourself, and overwork your team, you won't basically get that result that you wanted. (2:46) You all will be fatigued. And eventually, that's not what we wanted.
All right. So it's not about (2:55) basically, you know, the fact of the matter that you should not really listen, you shouldn't be (3:00) in everyone's shoes. You want to have those that natural ability to always care and listen and (3:07) connect with people.
And you don't want it to be like, you're doing it. And you feel so heavy after (3:15) having a conversation with someone. When the very thing that makes you as a great leader, (3:22) or a human is not about, you know, listening to someone, you want to have a full energy full, (3:31) basically, you want to recharge that and not drain your energy to the point where you can't lead (3:37) people.
You want to basically fuel yourself. And that's the most important thing while being (3:43) empathic. All right.
So if you ever felt this way, or emotionally worn out from always being there (3:52) for others, then this episode is definitely for you. So let's dive in. So when does empathy turns (4:02) into exhaustion? You know, sometimes, and this is the first thing that I tell people, it's really (4:09) not easy for you to basically tell someone that you don't want to help.
And honestly, (4:18) when you want to help, it's not easy to be in everyone's mind. What happened ultimately, (4:26) is that yes, you are empathic, you're being in everyone's mind. But you're not in your mind.
(4:32) Honestly, and what will happen is that your brain will overheat. You know, think of it like a car. (4:40) When you overdo the car in terms of performance, let's say there is too much temperature outside, (4:46) you're not doing that, you're not doing this, etc. What will happen is that it will overheat. (4:51) And it will not really function over a specific amount of time because it's just overloading. (4:59) Listen, empathy for me is a strength.
And I one time read a book called Why should anyone be led (5:06) by you, which talks mainly empathy, and I've learned a lot. And since that day, I've known (5:13) how to implement how to practice and cultivate empathy. But when you overuse it, it's just not (5:21) really good.
Now, what happens is that when you listen to someone, you're just absorbing struggles, (5:28) fears, emotions of other people without any space for you to recharge. And we talked about how (5:36) important is recharging, you know, talking to people, listening to them being present. It's (5:42) really draining and exhausting.
Tell me about that. I coach a lot of people. And when you coach, (5:48) and I'll talk about that later in the episode, you have to be physically there and mentally there (5:55) and very much alert.
Because you have to watch what's really happening when people talk. (6:01) So what happens is that when you overdo it, it leads to physical exhaustion, emotional numbness, (6:06) and burnout. And we don't want that. And eventually, it will impact it will really (6:12) affect you from delivering results. And that's why we are there in companies, right? (6:18) Let me share with you a story. This one, this lady is very dear to me, and I know her very well.
(6:28) She's a promising leader, very intelligent, and one of the hard workers that I've known (6:35) and reached out for. She actually came to me to for support. And she was like, Said, (6:43) I cannot concentrate anymore.
That was basically her ask. We dig deep into what she does and all (6:53) that and all this and all that. And then she opened up.
She was actually loved by everyone, (7:01) which is amazing. Right? But she was very much tolerating the outcome of why she's there as a (7:12) leader. So everyone loved her.
But again, it was compromising on the outcome in a way that (7:20) she was staying there over time in the company. When we went deeper and deeper, (7:30) she was explaining to me how her office was like a therapy center for everyone to walk in. Come on.
(7:39) You could make a good job and good life from that. But ultimately, you need and we'll speak (7:46) about that later. You need to create a boundary.
I mean, she was trying to help. I mean, I know that (7:53) and she felt kind of a guilt of if I don't help, then they're not going to do well. She was (8:00) listening. She was trying to solving. But honestly, she reached a point where she could not really (8:07) concentrate and continue. And ultimately, that affected her after work life.
So she had to stay (8:15) there in the office, continue her work, stay there forever, and then go back home exhausted (8:21) and miss that time with her kids and husband, which is really not good. You see what's happening. (8:30) Yes, empathy is fantastic, but she was very much overdoing it.
And that's not what we want to (8:38) reach. All right. So how can we really recognize the signs of empathy fatigue? Let me share with (8:46) you from my experience how to notice that the first thing is, you will feel very much drained (8:54) after helping someone.
And that's sometimes not good. When I help someone, (9:01) I'm actually energized after that. You want to have, when you help people, you want to have that (9:09) feeling that, wow, that was amazing, man.
You'll be like, hell yeah, I should do more of this. (9:17) When you start helping people and you feel drained afterwards, (9:23) that's basically when things are not going the way you wanted. The second thing here is you have (9:29) that guilt feeling that I should really help, even though you don't believe that they should do it. (9:39) This one is very tricky, by the way. And what happens is that when you have that guilt, (9:46) that you're basically trying to help someone and it doesn't tally with the business, (9:51) with the values, et cetera, it's really not that great. And you don't want that.
(9:57) You reach a situation where you are just listening and you're not really judgmental. (10:03) When you listen to someone, you should not really be judging that other person. And you don't want (10:08) that.
Now, the thing that you need to keep in mind is that you've got some other things that (10:16) you need to do in your life. And that's what I talk about here. It's very important that you (10:22) don't have that guilt.
Now, imagine you are leading someone and they're sharing with you (10:32) something that conflicts with the values and all that. How can you separate your emotions (10:38) between what they're sharing with you and the business? It becomes a bit tricky sometimes. (10:46) And that's where you have the guilt that you want to help, but it's really conflicting with your (10:51) emotions.
All right. Now, you also may have a point where you miss out on doing things that (11:01) you should do in life. It could be something like you will end up staying over at work.
(11:07) You may be postponing stuff. Let's say you're in the office and you basically have been listening (11:12) to everyone. And then you've been trying to solve their problems.
And then you say, (11:18) okay, I'm going to do this tomorrow. These are some signs that you have that empathy fatigue. (11:24) I mean, honestly, it's really good. So really don't get me wrong when I say that empathy (11:31) is not that great, but overdoing it is not good. So the first thing that you should do is (11:37) take care of yourself because if you want to help people, you want to take care of yourself first, (11:41) and then you can take care about people. It's always good to be selfish about that.
(11:47) I'll share with you a story. And this is a personal story that happened to me. (11:52) One time I did a psychometric test.
And, you know, I've done a lot, a lot of psychometric tests. (11:59) This one, it showed that I had a sad element in my personality, which was over the roof, (12:09) very high. And at that time we were sharing the results with the people who are around.
And they (12:16) were like, Saeed, could you be like that? You're always smiling. You're always happy. And no way (12:26) that's you.
There's something wrong here. But again, when the coach explained it to me, (12:31) it had an absolutely different meaning. That sad feeling meant that (12:41) when I see someone who needs help, I have that sad feeling that I should help them.
(12:50) And this was one of the things that was always draining me. And when my coach explained it to me, (13:01) she was like, what do you think, Saeed? What do you think about what I just told you? I was like, (13:06) wow, I wasn't really thinking this way. I really cannot believe that this is right. But honestly, (13:12) you're absolutely right. This is where, honestly, I had to do things different in my career. And it (13:22) really impacted me positively when it comes to that.
So let's talk about what really takes (13:29) for us to have that empathy level a bit lower, just so that we can thrive in our life. (13:37) The first thing is, and this is the first thing that you need to keep always in your mind is (13:41) set emotional boundaries. You know that lady who was having that open door policy for everyone to (13:47) come and all that.
It's good to have boundaries when to have it and when not to have it. I mean, (13:55) just remember that when you're stressed, when you're in the office, it's not about these guys. (14:01) You've got a lot of work.
You're stressed from shareholders, life demands, and so on. (14:09) So it's really not easy to practice and cultivate empathy all the time. How could you do it? You (14:17) cannot.
You're a human being. You've got this one brain that is basically trying to do a lot. (14:22) It's important to set those emotional boundaries.
Why is that important? Because when you do it, (14:33) you're just going to do other stuff and thrive. Now, let me be honest and frank with you. (14:40) It would not be that easy to initiate this step.
You will always have that guilt feeling, (14:48) but you're going to thank me and thank yourself for doing it. You know what will happen when you (14:54) start doing that? You are going to be, first of all, people will be shocked. Like, how come (15:01) this person is not anymore welcoming us? And oh my God, you're going to be the talk of the town.
(15:09) People will be gossiping in the corridor. Why is he like that? Why is she like that? What happened? (15:15) Probably you're going to be trending. If there is such a trend in the company, (15:19) it's like Instagram.
You're going to be just the talk of the town. (15:23) But honestly, it's just fine. It's you at the end of the day.
People would definitely get it. (15:32) Trust me when I talk about that. And listen, caring doesn't mean that you have to be caring (15:40) everyone.
So you need to define what is emotional responsibility for you first, (15:51) and then you can work with others. The second thing here is when you do empathy, (16:00) you have to recharge. So you will have to create regular recharge rituals.
(16:07) Even after when you create those boundaries, let's say you say, okay, I'm going to have, (16:11) let's say, three slots in a day. As a leader, you still have to practice empathy. (16:20) Later, maybe suddenly, maybe someone is coming with a breakdown or whatever the case is. (16:26) So definitely you will have to balance between practicing empathy and then clearing up your mind (16:33) because it's important to recharge and remember the car exhaustion or overheating example that (16:40) I mentioned to you. So you may be thinking to do activities like meditating, maybe a quiet walk, (16:48) anything that will build your emotional reserves because it's important as leaders to practice (16:55) empathy within specific boundaries and not overdoing it. The third thing here is what I (17:04) see from leaders is that they just want to do everything by themselves.
What I tell everyone, (17:12) share the load. You know the saying, sharing is caring. That's basically what they say.
(17:19) My kids tell me that. You cannot take the load by yourself. You cannot.
What you should do, (17:29) you should encourage peer support and a structured check-in because you don't want people to come (17:35) after, let's say, a period of stress or they're stressing themselves, stressing (17:40) themselves and they're coming to you. So have those regular checks every once in a while. (17:47) Empathy.
Yeah. And that's why, you know, I talk about mentoring a lot and I think it's amazing (17:53) because it really tells that person that you can go to that person so that you can vent out. (18:02) Mentoring is all about talking to a buddy, not about talking about business.
(18:07) The fourth thing here is you need to practice empathy (18:11) without attachment. This is very important. Very, very, very, very important. And I see this a lot (18:19) from leaders. Let's say that you are now having someone in front of you and they're talking and (18:26) they're talking and you're trying, you are basically practicing empathy. How could you do (18:31) it? And you're looking at your phone.
You cannot. You have to be fully present and that's why it's (18:39) difficult thing to cultivate. It's not easy.
When you're fully present, you're going to listen (18:45) and listen and listen. It's going to be much more deeper. All right.
Now, what's really important (18:54) about empathy is that you're listening and you are in their shoes and you're not really judging. (19:01) You're just looking at the stuff from a different mindset, not the same one. So, (19:09) when you are attached to a phone, when you are thinking about something, what will happen is (19:13) that you're going to have that internal dialogue that this is your problem and you need to fix it (19:20) and it's not their problem.
It's basically also your problem. Now, let me tell you how I learned (19:27) that from my coaching certification. You know, when you coach, when I did my certification, (19:35) they told me that 80% of the session, let's say you have one hour, 80% is listening and the (19:43) remaining is asking powerful questions, not speaking. And I remember I was so excited that (19:51) I was a certified coach and I started getting a session after a session, after a session, (19:57) after a session. Honestly, when I finished a session, I remember the first one, I got that (20:05) feeling that, oh my God, this is just amazing, very much rewarding because I was supporting (20:12) that person. One day, I had a back-to-back three session, like one session, one session, (20:20) three hours, and even one slipped to an hour and a half.
(20:27) The first one went very well. The second one, I was okay. The third one, oh my God, (20:36) when the guy was speaking, I remember I had that feeling in my mind that why the heck this guy is (20:45) doing this.
And I was doubting him and I was really questioning why he's, like you have that (20:53) internal dialogue while he was speaking, while you should be very much paying attention to what (20:58) that person is saying. I reached a point where I was like, why the hell are you doing that? (21:06) Honestly, it's not my problem. It's their problem.
And I'm there to support them in their journey. (21:12) And that's the most important thing when it comes to empathy. Do you see the difference between (21:19) the first guy that I coached? It went very well, very rewarding. And then the second guy (21:24) who was a victim of me not being present. Now, what happened also is that I was very much drained, (21:34) not present. I was very much telling myself that this is my problem.
I also had that guilt (21:42) that I should continue and support because if I don't, then they're not going to do very well in (21:48) their life. Now, everything that I shared with you within this story is exactly what I shared (21:57) with you in this episode, because this is what happened when you are not really present and fully (22:03) mindful. Now, before we end, I want to share with you the pitfalls that you should always avoid.
(22:12) Now, what's really important is that there is only one mindset, okay? And that is believing (22:19) that you have the emotional anchor for everyone at all the times. If you have that, then you are (22:27) basically going to have an empathy fatigue. You can't be the only one mindset mentality, man.
(22:34) You cannot. You cannot. And when you basically say that you're going to be the savior of the day and (22:40) all that, it's just going to drain you. So I see that a lot. So this is the first pitfall that I (22:45) see. The second thing here is when you basically have like emotional overload, emotional overload, (22:54) and then you keep pushing it and pushing it and pushing it without processing those feelings.
(23:01) And this is when it's really important to have those recharge moments. So you should not really (23:07) overload your emotions and you need to recharge. All right.
The third thing that I see a lot is (23:13) when you just ignore yourself, ignore your own need. You know, self-care for me is the first (23:20) thing if you want to help other people. So you need to take care of yourself first before helping (23:27) other people.
And listen, man, there are also people at home that are waiting for you. Keep (23:32) that in the back of your mind. So a key reminder here is a healthy empathy isn't about feeling less (23:39) or caring.
It's about protecting your capacity to feel in the long term. All right. So it's (23:46) all about balancing that empathy when it comes to that.
So just to recap this specific episode (23:54) about protecting your empathy, the first thing here is you will have to have a healthy emotional (24:01) boundaries when it comes to empathy. When you do that, the second thing here is you will have to (24:07) build recharge rituals or breaks to basically fuel yourself again, because ultimately you will have to (24:14) practice and cultivate empathy. The third thing here is share the load with someone else. It's (24:21) important to share it. And the last one here is practice empathy without absorbing their emotions. (24:28) And this is when presence and mindfulness is important.
All right. Why this is very important. (24:36) You know, in today's world, we are all very much emotional.
There are demands that are consistent (24:44) from work, from family, from even the news that we see every day. You know, and I see that empathy, (24:54) especially empathy fatigue is becoming more and more and more common. (25:00) And if we want to keep showing up for ourselves and those whom we love, (25:03) we have to take care of ourselves first.
And that's the most important thing. All right. (25:11) Before we close, I want to leave you with this.
Always remember empathy is a gift. (25:19) But you will have to protect yourself first. In Yuwab, we believe in leading with heart (25:27) and with health by managing our emotional energy. We not only avoid burnout, we want to create a (25:35) space for you to thrive in life. So if this episode resonated very well with you, share it with one (25:43) or anyone who would need it. And it could be a reminder for someone that needs it today or this (25:51) really moment.
All right. So until next time, take care of yourself and those who you care about.